Akritas Macedonian blog: The truth about "United Macedonian Diaspora"

Thursday, November 05, 2009

The truth about "United Macedonian Diaspora"

This is a Q & A for those having difficulties comprehending what was posted in my previous messages.

Online version: http://paste2.org/p/500624

In both cases, beware of folding links - or just get the pdf (end of the Q & A).

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The truth about "United Macedonian Diaspora" - Q & A

Q: What happened?

A: Maknews.com is a web forum frequented by "United Macedonian Diaspora" (UMD) members. A discussion explaining UMD's philosophy and goals, suddenly vanished.

Q: Why?
A: If you read the text, you'll understand why. This discussion could not continue publicly and was probably moved to a private forum.

Q: Where can I read the text?
A: The URL for the discussion is www.maknews.com/forum/post212232.html but, as said before, this topic was deleted or moved.

Q: So, how do we know what was written?
A: Several people saved copies of the discussion.

Q: Nice try, but one could easily forge these documents. Where's the proof?
A: Let's use an independent third party then. Google caches data across the internet and presents small chunks of text below the search results. Using the appropriate search phrases, a larger text can be reconstructed from these bits.

Q: Is that cheating?
A: Of course not. See http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=136861 for advanced search techniques.

Q: OK, I believe you now. Still, I don't know what to do.
A: Just follow these links then.

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22There+is+only+one+Macedonian+and+that+is+the+ethnic+Macedonian%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22There+are+citizens+of+Macedonia+who+can+be+Albanian%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22occupied+part+of+Macedonia+who+may+be+Greeks%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22There+can+be+citizens+of+Bulgaria+who+live+in+the+occupied+part+of+Macedonia%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22There+can+be+citizens+of+Albania+who+live+in+the+occupied+part+of+Macedonia%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22There+can+be+citizens+of+Serbia+who+live+in+the+occupied+part+of+Macedonia%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22of+them+are+Macedonians.+They+just+live%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22who+may+live+in+Macedonia+%28all+of%29+or+anywhere%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22is+an+ethnic+term%2C+not+a+geographical+term%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22Read+this%3A+www.artofmacedonism.com%22+%22I+assure+you%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22UMD%27s+leadership+level+believes+in%22

Q: This is time consuming. What's the text?
A: Here it is.

"There is only one Macedonian and that is the ethnic Macedonian.
There are citizens of Macedonia who can be Albanian, Turkish, Vlach, Roma, etc.
There can be citizens of Greece who live in the occupied part of Macedonia who may be Greeks, Vlachs, Pontians, Albanians, etc.
There can be citizens of Bulgaria who live in the occupied part of Macedonia who may be Bulgarian, Turkish, Roma, etc.
There can be citizens of Albania who live in the occupied part of Macedonia who may be Albanian, Turkish, etc.
There can be citizens of Serbia who live in the occupied part of Macedonia who may be Serbian, Albanian, etc.
But NONE of them are Macedonians. They just live in Macedonia.
The only Macedonians are the ethnic Macedonians, who may live in Macedonia (all of) or anywhere in the world.
The term Macedonian is an ethnic term, not a geographical term.
I don't think I can be much clearer than that.
Read this: www.artofmacedonism.com
I assure you, that's what everyone involved at UMD's leadership level believes in and supports. That's what UMD is all about."

Q: Granted, it doesn't look good. When did that happen?
A: March 2009. See Google's preview text at http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22posted%22%2B%22author%22%2B%22rogi%22%2B%22There+is+only+one+Macedonian+and+that+is+the+ethnic+Macedonian%22 for more..

Q: How is UMD connected?
A: Participants in the discussion are UMD members. For an example, see http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaknews.com+%22I+believe+there+are+some+good+people+in+the+UMD%2C+with+Rogi+being+a+member%22 (same author as above).

Q: Well, that could be a misunderstanding, right?
A: Wrong. By now we've established bigotry and irredentism, using publicly available, independent third party means.

Q: What about artofmacedonism.com?
A: This site (now defunct) was mentioned in the maknews.com discussion. The registrant was UMD.

Q: How do you know that?
A: Just whois the domain.

Q: What is whois?
A: Whois is a procedure used for querying the domains' databases, in order to determine information about them - such as registrant data.

Q: How do I do that?
A: Use any free service available.

Q: I'm not that technical.
A: Use NetworkSolutions and DomainTools. These are the results from http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/artofmacedonism.com and http://whois.domaintools.com/artofmacedonism.com regarding registrant data.

United Macedonian Diaspora
Private Avenue
Melbourne, NA 3000
AU

Q: What was the content of that site?
A: You'll find the complete text at http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:AKSn2LpDRQkJ:www.artofmacedonism.com and a small excerpt below.

"The Macedonian Cause

...national unification of all Macedonians living in all parts of Macedonia; the Republic of Macedonia, Aegean Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia, Mala Prespa & Golo Brdo and Gora..."

Q: Can you explain the part about "...Aegean Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia, Mala Prespa & Golo Brdo and Gora..."?
A: "Aegean Macedonia" is the greek and "Pirin Macedonia" the bulgarian part of the modern wider region of Macedonia (51% greek, 11% bulgarian). This terminology is frequently used by irredentists. "Mala Prespa & Golo Brdo" and "Gora" are regions of Albania and Kosovo respectively.

Q: Aren't these parts inhabited by different ethnic groups?
A: Today, 75% of the 5 million people living in the region of Macedonia do not identify as "ethnic Macedonians" but as Greeks (half of them), Albanians, Bulgarians, Roma, Turks and Serbs.

Q: What about the "national unification" then? It doesn't make any sense.
A: Irredentism isn't rational.

Q: Where can I find more information to download, print out and share with my friends?
A: There is a document (now updated) containing links, texts, screenshots and photos. Try the links below.

ORIGINAL - https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B-Di5LBUFNo8ZWI3NWQ0YWUtZWE4OC00ZWZhLTkzYmEtNmIzMDY1YTRiNzAx&hl=en
SHORT URL - http://bit.ly/umdiaspora
MIRROR - http://www.scribd.com/doc/22120849/

=========END=========

Regards,

Milos Petrovic

=======================================================
SOURCE: MGSA

2 comments:

AnonymousNovember 6, 2009 at 1:37 AM
Nice work Milos.
These Fyromanians are living in an absolute fantasy land.
The number one donor in the USA for the FYROMians is the founder of Little Caesar's Pizza a billionaire and he is committed 100% to the cause.
Can't seem to find any Greek billionaires helping out putting the truth about Macedonia and that is/was/will always be Greek. Maybe they are working behind the scenes.
Just a comment on the backers of the propaganda.
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AnonymousNovember 9, 2009 at 4:09 AM
Macedonia was, is and allways will be Greek. The Slavs will not win over this matter. They have no leg to stand on and history is with Greece.
As a Greek from Greek Macedonia (the only Macedinia)can not let this stand. The Fyromanians are living in fantasy land.
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Regarding the Greek debt Crisis....

Greece, a peripheral european state was encouraged to join a badly designed single currency by the rich elite of countries that dominated it. Those countries, having set up borrowing rules for the currency union, were the first to break them and did so with impunity.

Through complacency and inept financial regulation, and lacking good investment opportunities in their own stuttering economies, they then encouraged their banks to lend recklessly to the country on the periphery.

When those investments went sour, the elite governments -influence from Germany- with theirs globalizing neoliberal leadeships, rushed to bail out their banks first by loading up the debtor government with yet more loans to pay them back and then by imposing a foreign overlord to extract repayments through legal force.

We need History Lectures based on FACTS not political motives!

In November 5-8 2009 at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City took place the so-called "7th Macedonian-North American Conference on Macedonian Studies".
Although a number of presenters strictly deal with subjects of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, there are politically motivated lectures that attack and disparage the people of Greece, the Greek Cultural identity and as they twist historical facts through their disturbing presentation.
These motivated lectures are influence under the umbrella of the Slavmacedonism [5], a post-modern ultra nationalist ideology.

Read more here.

Modern Macedonian question - What is it all about?

Ancient Macedonia was a Greek kingdom situated in the north end of Greece. It became the most powerful Greek state during the 4th century bc after the decline of Athina (Athens) and Sparta. Under the leadership of King Philippos II and his son Alexandros III (Alexander the Great) the Macedonian army conquered most of the world and created the world's largest empire ever, including South-East Europe, most of Asia and North Africa.
After the death of Alexandros, Macedonia followed the fate of the rest of Greece. It became a Roman province, later a Byzantine province, it was occupied by the Ottoman empire and finally it became part of the indepented Greek state in 1912.
Today a Slavic nation attempts to adopt the history and culture of Macedonia as their own and present themselves to the world as "ethnic Macedonians" and "descedants of ancient Macedonians"
This is a blatant attack against Greece and its world wide respected history.
The FYROM Slavs who claim to be "Macedonians" have no historical, cultural or linguistic relation with ancient Macedonia. They descended into the region not before the 6th cent. A.D. long after ancient Macedonia was homogenized with the rest of Greece. Their 'Republic of Macedonia' occupies less than 10% of ancient Macedonia.
Therefore their claim on ancient Macedonia's name, history, culture and symbols can not be justified.

Aegean Macedonia.........

is a FYROMacedonian Slav nationalist term used to refer to the region of Macedonia in Greece, in the context of a United Macedonia.
The origins of the term seem to be rooted in the 1940s but its modern usage is widely considered ambiguous and irredentist.
The term has occasionally appeared on maps circulated in the FYROM, which envisioned Greek Macedonia (referred to as "Aegean Macedonia") as part of a "Greater Macedonia", and is regarded as a challenge of of the legitimacy of Greek sovereignity over the area.