Sunday, June 28, 2009

FYROM President Ivanov dreams the "Greater Macedonia"

FYROM’s irredentist policy towards Greece from 1944 to the present, a policy that is in flagrant breach of the Interim Agreement signed by the two parties in 1995 expressly calling on them to put an end to any mutual expressions of irredentism. The irredentist propaganda of FYROM, by which it essentially disputes Greece’s sovereignty over the northern part of the country, will be promoted with a barrage of advertisements on the American and European media

The last hit came from the FYROM President Gjorgje Ivanov with a delirium of Irredentism has expressed the real feeling as regards the FYROM State

This is the abstract from the interview in that shows clearly the FYROM Irredentism....

The historical dogma, taking shape in FYROM, backtracks the origins of this modern Slavmacedonians—the Makedonci— a full millennium to include the ancient Macedonians (5th century BC). This revisionist historical dogma, is not limited to encroaching upon the identity of a Hellenic people of the classical times.
It aims at expanding the boundaries of the historical “taktovina” (fatherland) of the “Makedonci” to include wide regions of Greece and Bulgaria. It is well known, that for decades the classrooms and school textbooks of history in FYROM have been adorned with maps portraying Macedonia’s “geographic and ethnic”, i.e. Slavic boundaries extending all the way to Mount Olympus and Chalkidiki, in Greek Macedonia as well as to the Pirin district of Bulgaria.
FYROM main headings were, are and will be...

-Renaming Greek Macedonia as ‘Aegean Macedonia’, and representing it as terra irredenta, as an integral part of FYROM.

-Claiming the existence of an oppressed ‘Macedonian minority’ within Greece.

-Appropriating emblems and symbols, and the Greek cultural legacy in general (with Ancient Macedonia as the focal point).

With the irredentist aspirations which Ivanov promotes with Nikola Gruevski (known as “trouble maker of the Balkans”), and this will have consequences for both himself and his country. The stigma of the dangerous nationalist does not disappear easily in the Balkans. This was a painful discovery for the Serbians who lived through the dismemberment of their country because Slobodan Milosevic started to play the nationalist card in 1989.

Ivanov as member of the extreme nationalist partie VMRO also stated that Serbs dream of a Greater Serbia but he forget to tell what the result of this dream was. Ivanov is trying to become a “hero” internally in his country without being concerned about the fact that externally he is beginning to be viewed as a pariah. Such irredentist statements are dangerous for "regional cooperation and stability in the fragile region of the Balkans". These statements are extremely provocative and totally unacceptable, and proved

-the correctness of the Greek arguments, stance and policy, which insists on the need for resolving the name problem

-that as long as the problem remains unsolved, it will serve as the tool and vehicle of an outdated and historically unfounded irredentism that is dangerous for regional cooperation and stability of the fragile region of the Balkans

-that the neighbouring country (FYROM), so long as it remains captive to irredentist rationales of the past, cannot look forward to a European and Euro-Atlantic future.


  1. What is this ?

  2. Is a propagandist article that written from members of the nationalist party Rainbow. Presents an historical map as irredentist one. The writer of the specific article forgets σκόπιμα to mention that the borders lines have drawn according the national treaties.

    What about the present article ?
    Are you agree with Ivanov irredentist dreams ?

  3. The Spiegel Online article is frought with misinformation and out right lies. Unfortunately, it seems that the reporter Renate Flottau does is not well versed with the subject that she is attempting to tackle, leading to Ivanov making false statements that she allows him to get away with without challenging him in anyway.

    Ivanov is a blatent lier.

    He says:
    "Does anybody really believe that we would attack Greece and demand a union with "Macedonians" who have been living in Greece since 1913"

    Greece has not stated that they see the instability manifest itself in the absurd notion that Ivanov is putting forward, but rather the propaganda that eminates from Skopje is creating instability, right now. This is not some sort of dream we are living. There are no "Macedonian" people living in Greece since 1913, these people are bi-lingual citizens of Greece. They chose to remain in Greece during population exchange that occured after the 1912-13 Balkan War, and thus asserting their choice to be Greek citizens. What Ivanov is asserting is his twisted propaganda, once again.

    Ivanov says:

    "These maps of the ethnic "Macedonians" from the 19th century, when all "Macedonians" lived together in one state."

    What a load of absolute garbage. These people that Ivanov refers to "Macedonians" were Slavs who lived in the region of Macedonia that was a part of the Ottoman Empire, there was no such state of "Macedonia" that he is attempting to manufacture. Such a state, in the sense of a nation did not exist, but only in his delusional mind and in the delusional mind of the Slavs of the newly created nation state of the FYROM. In the geographical region of Macedonia, there was a "La Salade Macedeoineis" of ethnicities, Turks, Albainians, Bulgars, Serbs, Roma and Greeks. These Slavs of the FYROM had at that time an ethnic conscience of being Bulgar. So this rubbish Ivanov is espousing is just that rubbish.

    He says:

    "Many "Macedonians" who were forced to flee Greece, had to leave behind everything they had"

    Yes, Mr. Ivanov but these individuals also were considered traitors of the Greek state. They were not forced to flee, they fled due to their prior traitorous actions against the Greek state that led them to flee on their own volition. If they had stayed they would have been charged as enemy combatants and traitors, and at that time, would have been put up against a firing squad and shot. So they fled to save their own skin!

  4. ...cont...

    Ivanov says:

    "They were brought by the emigrants. As opponents of the communists, they were expelled and they returned after the communist regime fell."

    These people fled on their own violition because they chose to fight with the communists and against the Greek state, not the rubbish that Ivanov tries to put forward, that they were "opponents of the communists." What a joke this guy is! These people, who were Greek citizens were traitors to the Greek state.

    Ivanov says:

    "Our constitution, because of pressure from Greece, prohibits us from doing that. But as a member of the EU, Greece must accept that European principles must be adhered to across Europe -- also when it comes to its minorities."

    Which minorities is he refering to? He is attempting to create something that does not exist. There are bi-lingual Greek citizens that live in Greece, no one is denying this. Rather, Ivanov is with his acolytes attempting, to create a dynamic which results in social instability. This is what his failed propaganda is attempting to do. These people are simply delusional.

    Ivanov says:

    "It wasn't Macedonia, but rather Greece that evoked antiquity in order to prove its authenticity."

    No, Mr. Ivanov it has been your nations state sponsored propaganda that has been attempting to establish a direct link to the Greek speaking Ancient Macedonians, who by themselves, considered themselves Greek. Your state sponsored psuedo-history is attempting to assert that the Ancient Macedonians were your ancestors. The Greek people are fully in their right to protest and protect and cherrish their history. One need only open their eyes to your actions, rather than to your words to see the reality. You Mr. Ivanov are a propagandist and a delusional lier.

    Ivanov says:

    "We fulfilled every reform, our people planned for the future, foreign investments were announced. Worst of all is the fact that up to today not a single NATO official has found it necessary to discuss it with us or to offer the prospect of a solution. My God, we have been treated unfairly."

    No Mr. Ivanov, you have been treated fairly. You have not fulfilled every reform. The NATO was fully within its right to deny your nation an invitation to join the NATO. You were denied admittance for very legitimate reasons put forward by one of its members, Greece, in which the NATO thoughtfully considered, and agreed with Greece's position.

    Maybe Mr. Ivanov, rather than acting like an immature child that spits its dummy when it doesn't get what it wants, which exactly what you have recently demonstrated by erecting all manner of ancient Greek statues, renaming your streets, buldings and anything else you could think of to names of ancient Greeks, you might want to be somewhat introspective, grow up, act mature, and take actions that demonstrates that you deserve to enter the NATO. Right now, the NATO itself doesn't think you are ready. It's really quite simple Mr. Ivanov, really, truly.

  5. ...cont...

    Ivanov says:

    "If a train is standing on the tracks, the tracks will determine the direction. "

    Yes, Mr. Ivanov your analogy is poignant, the one significant point in your analogy you seem to have taken for granted, is that the train is stopping at your station. This is not a given, which you do not appear to have understood. Mr. Ivanov, you can catch a cold standing at a train platform for too long, waiting for a train that never stops.

    Ivanov says:

    "The new general secretary of NATO will also be more creative -- NATO could even review its own decision again and could accept us as part of the alliance despite Greece's veto."

    I don't think so Mr. Ivanov. This is what the current general secretary of the NATO said:

    " QUESTION: Skopje New Information Agency. Secretary General, I must ask you, Skopje, as you know, has done a lot with the reforms to join NATO. We have our peace troops in Afghanistan and for the next year we’re going to enlarge the Skopjan soldiers. Don’t you think that in your mandate, you didn’t give us enough support to become a member of NATO, together with Albania and Croatia?

    JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER: No, I don’t think so because I think I’ve done everything which was in my power to bring that about and I’m telling you no news if I say that the decision at the Bucharest Summit a year ago was crystal clear, that the solution has to be found for the name issue. And I hope that there will be some more flexibility in Skopje than I’ve seen up until now.

    Let me answer you openly, frankly and directly. I would like to see your nation in NATO. I’ve never made any, I’ve never concealed my own ambition and I’ve been to Skopje many times. But it also means quite honestly that I have to see flexibility and I think more than I have seen up until now. So the answer to your question is no, I do not agree if you say, Secretary General, have you done enough? I think I have done enough. My successor will also invest. I have invested in the relationship with Skopje. So will my successor.

    So that is my answer to your question."

    Mr Ivaonv says:

    "I am an optimist. US President Barack Obama just clearly stated that Macedonia must become a member of NATO."

    Yes, Mr. Ivanov the POTUS Obama may have said this, but you must understand that this is not without you taking the required steps, unless you want to see your good selves once again leaving empty handed.

    Ivanov says:

    "It takes two to tango."

    It seems Mr. Ivanov you have been reading my previous post, where I said "It takes two to tango, Greece is on the dance floor, but her partner has stood her up!"


  7. So what exactly is irredentist about what Ivanov said? People own properties in Greece. They want them back. How is that irredentist?


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